Onkyo HF Player? Pass
There’s an application for just about any purpose you can imagine. In the high-end audio arena, there are a variety of applications that process a stereo imagine into a 3D surround sound experience, there are applications that allow you to EQ the tracks you listen too and there are even applications that will let you edit the tunes in your library so you can skip the parts of the songs that you don’t like.
But there hasn’t been an application that would actually output real high definition audio files. However, it seems that Onkyo has taken up the challenge and created an iOS application that claims to do just that. They call it the Onkyo HF player (just what we need another acronym…isn’t it enough to have HD, HR and HRA? Do we really need HF?) I guess it stands for HiFi, but I’m not really sure.
The application uses the Camera Connection Kit to bypass the normal DACs in whatever i-Device you choose. The onboard DACs are limited to 44.1/48 kHz/16/24 bits by the iOS. From what I’ve been told the actual hardware will go higher but it demands too much power by Apple standards. The Onkyo application has power issues as well. The information on the sites includes the following statement:
“Note: DSD-IFF and DSF formats are converted to PCM before playback. Playback of high-resolution files places high demands on CPU and battery resources. For optimal playback results, Onkyo recommends closing other applications and placing your device on Airplane Mode.”
Other features of the application, include the ability to playback up to 192 kHz PCM audio as well as DSD, FLAC and WAV files.
The website goes on:
“Onkyo hopes the friendly interface and audio flexibility will turn casual listeners, who may have only just begun to rediscover their favorite music with a pair of quality headphones, into budding hi-fi enthusiasts. As their confidence grows, so too does HF Player. Users seeking the ultimate in high-resolution audio performance can make an in-app HF Player Pack purchase (US$9.99) to enable FLAC, DSD, WAV, and AIFF playback of up to 192 kHz with 24-bit sampling (these files are loaded via a simple drag-and-drop operation on an iTunes-equipped PC prior to synchronization). This in-app purchase also enables selectable upsampling from 44.1 kHz to a possible 192 kHz, and an HD phase-linear equalizer with an incredible 20,000 bands of adjustment in 64-bit mode.”
I cruised around the usual computer audiophile and high-resolution audio website to gauge reaction to this announcement. Everyone seems pretty excited about this new development. One reader over at Audiostream posted:
“Playing native DSD (Kenny Burrell’s Midnight Blue via DoP with the Onkyo app…sounds fabulous!”
Let’s take an objective look at this application. It requires you to have an external DAC connected to the source device via the camera connection kit. It converts all audio files including the DSD files to PCM for conversion and output (so why all of the fuss about the inclusion of DSD files?) There is no source material to enjoy at 192 kHz that actually has high-frequency content above 25-30 kHz. And the quality of the headphone amp in the external converter will largely determine the fidelity that you experience.
There is a very powerful 16,000-band FIR equalizer built into the application. But do you really want to be responsible for the audio quality by adjusting the equalization of every recording you play.
There is a need for the DACs in smart phones to move up to 96 kHz/24-bits. That’s more than enough to handle everything you’re likely to acquire in HD sound. But I don’t want a separate device, I don’t want my files upsampled and I don’t want to fool myself into thinking I’m getting DSD quality when in fact, everything is output as PCM. I’ll pass.
I guess you didn’t get what is DoP. USB only support transfer PCM, and can’t directly transfer DSD format to DAC, so it convert DSD to PCM format without losing, transfer to the DAC which support DoP format, and the DAC convert DoP back to DSD and then to analog directly. Nothing get lost in the process.
I’m aware DSD encoded files need to be packaged in PCM packets in order for them to past down a USB connection. But what the Onkyo article states is that the DSD is converted to PCM for playback. I believe that’s something different than just repackaging the format to sneak down a cable.
I’ve always thought of DoP as analogous to ac3 format being stored in a PCM package, when it’s unpacked, it’s still an ac3 format. So if the DSD file is treated the same, then it should still be DSD format when it is unpacked. Of course related to the Onkyo player, I’ve always thought of DoP as a hardware-based process that requires a compatible external DAC? So you can get the Onkyo player, but to take advantage of DoP, need the proper external DAC i assume.
The question I’ve wondered is whether conversion of DSD to PCM playback versus DoP playback has a noticeable quality difference. Of course with either approach, there will no ultrasonics, but perhaps the 20 Hz – 20kHz band is different? Anybody with a DoP DAC ever test this out?
Ancient article that turned up in a Google search, but I just had to Simmental on how far off you were on this. Yes, it require an external DAC and possibly an external amp as well, but that is fine because they are stuffing DAC’s and amps into cases smaller than the iPhone now. And they can give high end audio gear a run for their moneyasfar as quality is concerned. Also, for someone tasked with writing about high end audio, you should be well aware that headphones and portable sized amps and DAC’s are one of the few areas of high end audio that have not tanked, and are seeing significant growth. The people who were smart enough to start making the “Poor man’s premium audio” are the only ones making money and seeing market growth, unlike those who make absurd gear at absurd prices.
Now, it would be nice if Apple would make an iPhone with a top of the line DAC and amp, and we will probably get there. But the tech has not kept up with consumer desires, so we are forced to jump through a few hoops to have premium sound in a portable format. Most early adopters of a new branch of tech have to cope with that before device manufacturers catch up. Someone involved in high end audio should be very familiar with such a scenario.
It may be capable of delivering so-called “Hi-Res” Audio but the source materials that are being sold as “Hi-Res” music don’t benefit from moving the specs up. I’m all for the best sound possible in any device and price range. The Onkyo player is just not the way to go IMHO.
If I understand you, you are slagging on upscaling the FLAC files to a higher bitrate, which is not something I mentioned. I am not sure if you are confused about how this app works. It is not upscaling the MP3 crap Apple sells and passing it off as high res. It can so some upscaling, but you have to purchase or create FLAC files ad install them on the iPhone/iPad for the player to access them.
So what do you recommend for an iOS app for iPhones to play FLAC files, for those of us who don’t have a desire for another device with a quirky OS and tied to a DAC and amp that are middle of the road at best? I would rather use the superior processor and stable OS exists on my phone, and attach it to a DAC and amp of my choice. Also, if you are complaining about the quality of FLACs available, can you suggest a good source for something a few centuries newer than most sites carry? Someplace where Led Zep is considered ancient would work.
At this time it is the best audio player on ios and android.It is the only player i use now.Thank’s Onkyo !
I wish I knew how to add a song to a playlist… it seems impossible
The instructions for doing that on an Apple device are right there in the app. Click on “Setting” in the upper right side of the play screen, and there is a link listed under “HD Library Sync” that reads “Show Audio File Transfer guide”. That will redirect you to a webpage that explains it step by step, complete with screenshots.
This app is a game changer! The equalizer function is perfect for using an ipad or iphone in the car. I am able to cut out the excessive bass boom and greatly improve clarity. I am adding the Audioquest Red when it starts shipping and will feed it into my car Aux In. I paid 10 bucks and upgraded the app to HD player. I will soon be enjoying my HD Tracks 24/95 files in my car for the first time
Sorry Roy, I think you’ve been reading too many testimonials. An equalizer shouldn’t be required to get good sound in your car and the Audioquest cable is complete waste of money. The HD tracks that you want to enjoy aren’t really HD…
@Admin: So a century of Audio Engineering regarding enclosed spaces is now rendered obsolete by your pronouncement that relative frequency amplitudes are not perceived by the ear in enclosed spaces? I am a broadcaster, loudspeaker designer, voicer, recording engineer, composer, broadcaster. We have standards and principles, science, even laws, that your pronouncement violates. Do not make any further pronouncements until you gain a degree and considerable commercial, real-world experience.
I fail to see where in the post I stated that “relative frequency amplitudes are not perceived the ear in enclosed spaces”. Maybe one of us missed something here. The article in question address the Onkyo approach to reproducing hi-res audio through the conversion from DSD to PCM and the application of EQ to “enhance” fidelity.
Not to beat a dead horse here from November of 2013, but I get the sense that the author never actually heard this app on his phone. I personally only listen to 24bit or DSD and ISO files at home, after throwing away all of my iTunes-junk-mp3’s in the (proverbial) trash. So, for around $9 bucks, I can now play all my expensive hi-res music on my phone.
Rather than get hung up on HOW the music is parlayed to the headphones, the mere fact that I’m able to hear a part of my home collection on my phone’s tiny hard drive without having to repurchase MP3′ copies is a godsend. DSD’s DO sound amazing on the Onkyo app, primarily due to the fact that they were mastered by top engineers at MFSL, Analog Productions, Esoteric, etc. The masters you would get on iTunes are far inferior to these files, not to mention the fact that they’re lossy and un-involving.
Clearly this article struck a nerve with people, and it comes off as more of a trolling-of-audiophiles than honest reporting, but that’s ok. That’s the world we live in now. Suffice it to say, this is the only decent app on the market to be able to listen to your home collection of audiophile music. For anyone to criticize the merits of owning an app that costs the equivalent of two lattes is hilarious.
Bravo sir, for getting me to spend time writing this rebuttal to your article. I’m sure that was your intention all along…
I’m not sure that everything available to audiophile — including this app — have to be tried in order to evaluate their claims. The fact that you love the sound of DSD files that started life as analog tapes, got transferred to DSD (with all of the ultrasonic noise) and then get PCM out of this device makes me suspicious of your claims of sonic quality. The studies that have been done established that no one could tell the difference between DSD and PCM. The new “masters” that you claim dominate the new high-res download market place are actually quite rare. The vast majority of download from HDtracks and others are not newly mastered…they are simply transferred to PCM and left as is.
The audiophile world is full of hoaxes and snake oil. High-resolution audio can be done but not the way that SONY, the DEG, and others are doing it. There are lots of portable devices that cost a lot of money that claim specs into the stratosphere…I wouldn’t wast my money on them either.
So what’s your solution? Stop listening to music altogether in the modern world? I’m confused. If a recording was originally analog, we shouldn’t listen to it in a digital form out of some form of silent protest? I used to enjoy listening to vinyl, but so many vinyl pressings in my collection were muffled and poorly pressed. Many times I found the digital remaster to be far more “analog” and involving than the vinyl version. I for one don’t care how the “sausage is made,” as long as the “sausage” sounds good. If a piece of music is analog, DSD or PCM, as long as I can tap my toes and feel something, then that’s all I care about.
I admit Apple did more to drain the enjoyment out of music by promoting lossless music, but Onkyo learned from Apple’s mistakes, and created something that is acceptable -at minimum, and enjoyable -at most.
Quite frankly I admit that the samples of music produced by you that you offer links to -sound very nice, but if the artists that are recorded aren’t as talented to justify the meticulous reproduction, what’s the point? To listen to music because it’s “audiophile” makes that person less of a music enthusiast, and more of a scientist studying nuance. I prefer to consider myself a music enthusiast.
I’m certainly not suggesting that you don’t continue to enjoy your “hi-res” music. I think analog music transferred to hi-res PCM digital (96kHz/24-bits) gives everything that was on the original analog tape. My problem is that the powers that be are trying to convince you and the rest of the music buying public that these are “high-resolution” or “studio masters” — they’re not. They are just digital versions of the best quality transfer (and in some cases a new remaster) available to the labels (which is not typically the original master).
I’m confused by your Apple comment. They use AAC, which is lossy. There are ALAC files also available but they are not the norm. There is great music out there in a variety of formats. The problem is that most of it isn’t high-resolution and will never be.
@Admin I’ve been reading your exchanges with others, but I do not see you offer your *opinion* on what you consider “hi-resolution”. Is there any digital format you would consider to be “hi-resolution”?
I’ve been writing about High-Resolution Audio for years in this column and others. My definition is any format that meets or exceeds the capabilities of human hearing. For me, that PCM audio running at 96 kHz/24-bits. Vinyl LPs, Analog Tape, and CDs do not qualify.
Some people can NEVER be satisfied!